Comments on: Chinese Internet celebrities, forums and other lurid scandals http://imagethief.com/2010/06/chinese-internet-celebrities-forums-and-other-lurid-scandals/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=chinese-internet-celebrities-forums-and-other-lurid-scandals Public relations, communication and interesting times in China since 2004 Fri, 13 Jan 2012 07:02:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Bob http://imagethief.com/2010/06/chinese-internet-celebrities-forums-and-other-lurid-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-907 Bob Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:47:51 +0000 http://imagethief.com/?p=366#comment-907 Put me down for the weaselly "it depends". I don't often see the point in advertising that doesn't state what's being advertised & who's advertising it. That is, I don't think it's necessarily morally wrong to hold back the brand or the company, I just think it's usually strategically wrong. When could it be good strategy? When pushing or revealing the brand/sponsor will impede the goals of the communication. What circumstances are those? Not many. But consider: * market research efforts, when you often want to sample unbiased opinion * corporate philanthropy, where pushing the brand TOO hard can negate the benefit to good will the philanthropy was intended to generate. * when you're trying to enter a market your brand or identity may not otherwise give you "permission" to enter. IOW, when the brand is an albatross, not an asset *in that market*. Of course, that's an argument for a new brand line... Trying to pass off corporate talking points as spontaneous comments from a consumer with no financial stake in the company is deceptive, and may blow back. It risks smearing any authentic netroots supporters as company puppets. If the operating assumption is that everyone talking up a company has a stake, there may not be enough real credibility there to save. But if it exists, it's a pretty valuable asset, and it's an asset that's easy to destroy. So I'd be quite reluctant to be in the vanguard of those firms pursuing the "astroturf" approach. -Bob Put me down for the weaselly “it depends”.

I don’t often see the point in advertising that doesn’t state what’s being advertised & who’s advertising it. That is, I don’t think it’s necessarily morally wrong to hold back the brand or the company, I just think it’s usually strategically wrong.
When could it be good strategy? When pushing or revealing the brand/sponsor will impede the goals of the communication. What circumstances are those? Not many.
But consider:
* market research efforts, when you often want to sample unbiased opinion
* corporate philanthropy, where pushing the brand TOO hard can negate the benefit to good will the philanthropy was intended to generate.
* when you’re trying to enter a market your brand or identity may not otherwise give you “permission” to enter. IOW, when the brand is an albatross, not an asset *in that market*. Of course, that’s an argument for a new brand line…

Trying to pass off corporate talking points as spontaneous comments from a consumer with no financial stake in the company is deceptive, and may blow back. It risks smearing any authentic netroots supporters as company puppets. If the operating assumption is that everyone talking up a company has a stake, there may not be enough real credibility there to save. But if it exists, it’s a pretty valuable asset, and it’s an asset that’s easy to destroy. So I’d be quite reluctant to be in the vanguard of those firms pursuing the “astroturf” approach.

-Bob

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By: Shaan http://imagethief.com/2010/06/chinese-internet-celebrities-forums-and-other-lurid-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-809 Shaan Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:05:41 +0000 http://imagethief.com/?p=366#comment-809 A much delayed response here, but thanks again for answering my questions so thoroughly. I definitely feel there should never be a need to deceive--content promoting a brand or product should stand on its own, independent of its creator. The problem then perhaps is that content produced by or in the name of a brand is automatically ignored by the online Chinese masses, no matter how good it is. Are Chinese net users, at the risk of generalizing terribly, just that suspicious of branded content? I've certainly seen my fair share of excellent viral videos and photo slideshows and mini sites created in the name of brand promotion, but I'm not sure how such kinds of content have fared in China. Or it is simply that there is a dearth of good branded content--companies doing business in China may be hesitant to invest in digital PR because it does appear to be a scorched wasteland of BBS detritus and outlaw forums in which any brand message would be lost, maimed, pillaged and destroyed. Despite the bleak outlook, some have taken the plunge and succeeded--Nike, for example. Nike created a video about Liu Xiang's return to hurdling in the run up to the Shanghai Golden Grand Prix, very professional, definitely expensive. It has received half a million views on tudou.com, not bad for a branded video that's 24 minutes long. I don't know if that can be considered a complete success in China, but it certainly can't be a failure. (The video also appears on Youku, but I have a feeling it wasn't promoted there--it has only 10,000 views.) No doubt China's Internet regulations and the industry's inability to regulate itself presents many hurdles (cheesy pun intended) to successfully engaging in digital PR, but the shady unethical tactics seem borne more out of laziness mixed with low budgets, rather than any "response to the nature of the Chinese Internet." A much delayed response here, but thanks again for answering my questions so thoroughly. I definitely feel there should never be a need to deceive–content promoting a brand or product should stand on its own, independent of its creator.

The problem then perhaps is that content produced by or in the name of a brand is automatically ignored by the online Chinese masses, no matter how good it is. Are Chinese net users, at the risk of generalizing terribly, just that suspicious of branded content? I’ve certainly seen my fair share of excellent viral videos and photo slideshows and mini sites created in the name of brand promotion, but I’m not sure how such kinds of content have fared in China.

Or it is simply that there is a dearth of good branded content–companies doing business in China may be hesitant to invest in digital PR because it does appear to be a scorched wasteland of BBS detritus and outlaw forums in which any brand message would be lost, maimed, pillaged and destroyed.

Despite the bleak outlook, some have taken the plunge and succeeded–Nike, for example. Nike created a video about Liu Xiang’s return to hurdling in the run up to the Shanghai Golden Grand Prix, very professional, definitely expensive. It has received half a million views on tudou.com, not bad for a branded video that’s 24 minutes long. I don’t know if that can be considered a complete success in China, but it certainly can’t be a failure. (The video also appears on Youku, but I have a feeling it wasn’t promoted there–it has only 10,000 views.)

No doubt China’s Internet regulations and the industry’s inability to regulate itself presents many hurdles (cheesy pun intended) to successfully engaging in digital PR, but the shady unethical tactics seem borne more out of laziness mixed with low budgets, rather than any “response to the nature of the Chinese Internet.”

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By: Lewceein http://imagethief.com/2010/06/chinese-internet-celebrities-forums-and-other-lurid-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-645 Lewceein Thu, 03 Jun 2010 15:00:23 +0000 http://imagethief.com/?p=366#comment-645 I think you're right that it's much better for "viral" videos to be upfront about what they're promoting. Chinese sofa-sitters have great appreciation for anything 牛逼, whether it's in a good way or bad. I think that as long as your video is remarkable in that way, you'll have a living room jam-packed with sofas and elegantly-carved 'zitan' chairs. Remember that video of the Shanghainese “mistress” bitching out her boyfriend to get a Buick? (Gotta love the Chinese - Buick relationship, by the way.) If Buick were more upfront about the sponsorship of the video, I bet the comments would still be full of disses about bitchy Shanghainese girls and weak-handed Shanghainese men. The add would still have been a success. I agree with your analysis - I just want to add that the key element of successful viral ads is 牛逼lity (spelling stolen from the equally awkward Englishization of 装逼 to "zhuangbi-lity"). Most soy-sauce-buyers have a fairly healthy suspicion of almost any video uploaded onto the message boards, so it's not like companies are really going to sneak one by. Sure, people arguing over the authenticity of the posts jacks up the viewership, but is that really the kind of press companies want - especially when it's not even necessary? Anyway, your new site is as 牛逼 as ever. I felt so lost while you were off "working" and "spending time with your son". Keep it up, Luc I think you’re right that it’s much better for “viral” videos to be upfront about what they’re promoting.

Chinese sofa-sitters have great appreciation for anything 牛逼, whether it’s in a good way or bad. I think that as long as your video is remarkable in that way, you’ll have a living room jam-packed with sofas and elegantly-carved ‘zitan’ chairs.

Remember that video of the Shanghainese “mistress” bitching out her boyfriend to get a Buick? (Gotta love the Chinese – Buick relationship, by the way.) If Buick were more upfront about the sponsorship of the video, I bet the comments would still be full of disses about bitchy Shanghainese girls and weak-handed Shanghainese men. The add would still have been a success.

I agree with your analysis – I just want to add that the key element of successful viral ads is 牛逼lity (spelling stolen from the equally awkward Englishization of 装逼 to “zhuangbi-lity”).

Most soy-sauce-buyers have a fairly healthy suspicion of almost any video uploaded onto the message boards, so it’s not like companies are really going to sneak one by. Sure, people arguing over the authenticity of the posts jacks up the viewership, but is that really the kind of press companies want – especially when it’s not even necessary?

Anyway, your new site is as 牛逼 as ever. I felt so lost while you were off “working” and “spending time with your son”.

Keep it up,
Luc

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By: Charles Frith http://imagethief.com/2010/06/chinese-internet-celebrities-forums-and-other-lurid-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-604 Charles Frith Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:49:39 +0000 http://imagethief.com/?p=366#comment-604 Both Churchill and McCluhan talked about the third world war being an information war. If we look around that looks spot on. Answering your question would take a lot of contextual ground covering. So yes and no in short. Both Churchill and McCluhan talked about the third world war being an information war. If we look around that looks spot on. Answering your question would take a lot of contextual ground covering. So yes and no in short.

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